Following are excerpts from an interview with Ven. Ajahn Suchart Abhijato Maha Thera of Thailand. The Maha Thera is well known across the globe for his impactful Dhamma teaching methods and meditation practices.
Q: The Four Foundations of Mindfulness are mindfulness of body, feelings, mind, and Dhamma. Can a person keen to enter the Path to become enlightened choose and practise either of the four? Or is it necessary to practise all four?
A: It says the Four Foundations of Mindfulness. It can become a little bit confusing because when we talk about mindfulness we only deal with the first part, the mindfulness of breathing and the mindfulness of the body. This is the practice of mindfulness. But the other parts are more towards Vipassana or wisdom.
The other parts are a contemplation of the nature of the body as being anicca – being subject to aging, sickness, and death or Asupa, not being attractive. This is more toward wisdom.
Focusing on Vedana or feelings means learning how to live with painful feelings. So this is also more about wisdom.
But we have to practise the teachings in the Four Foundations of Mindfulness step by step. The first step is to develop mindfulness by being mindful of your body movements, Kaya Gatha Sathi. When you are doing seated meditation then you use Anapanasati – watching your breath until you eventually develop the Jaanas.
Once you have developed the jaanas the next thing is to go to Vipassana and study the nature of the body – as Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta and let go of your attachment to the body.
Next, you go to Vedana (feelings) and study the nature of feelings as Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta and then let go of your attachment to them.
And then you go to study the nature of the mind which is constantly changing – the things in the mind keep constantly changing. Sometimes It has good feelings, sometimes it has bad feelings. Sometimes the mind is happy, sometimes it is sad. They are constantly changing and you have to learn how to live/deal with them by accepting them as Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta.
Once you can let go of all your attachments to your body, feelings and your mental state, then you become fully enlightened.
Q: So we have to start with the Mindfulness of the Body first and do the rest step by step?
A: Yes, you need to start with mindfulness. Develop Samadhi. You need mindfulness to calm your mind. Once your mind becomes still then you have equanimity. So you will have the strength to resist your cravings.
Next step: You can go to Vipassana – investigate the nature of the body so that you can stop your attachment or craving for the body.
Afterwards, you go to investigate painful feelings aiming to let go of your reactions to them. This way, you won’t be disturbed by any type of feelings you encounter and then, you move on to examining your emotions, mind, and mental state.
Q: So it is a long process?
A: It depends on how smart you are. The Buddha said you can do it in seven days, seven months, or seven years. It depends on what type of student you are, A student, B student, or C student. If you are an ‘A student’ you might be able to do it in seven days.
Q: If we have experiences from our previous births, it should be easier for us to do it. Isn’t that so?
A: That’s right. If you have practised the Jaana already, then it will take just seven days. Then you can go directly to Vipassana.
Q: Is breath meditation the most suitable meditation for all of us?
A: Breath meditation is suitable for beginners and those who do not have much mindfulness. But many people still find even that difficult. Most people still need to rely on meditation beads,chanting or something like that before they can have enough concentration to be able to watch their breath.
Q: Concentrating on the mind is very challenging
A: But if you make an effort to develop mindfulness all day long, you will gain a lot of mindfulness and be able to start your meditation by watching your breath right away.
Q: There are certain positive thinkers and motivational speakers across the globe who use meditation types that are purely founded on Buddhist Meditation to achieve material benefits. However, they often fail to acknowledge Buddhism. Is it ethical?
A: You should not think about getting credit for your actions. You do it for the benefit of other people. If they benefit from your action, then you should be happy with that, even if they do not recognise you as a benefactor.
Q: However, some practitioners behave as though they invented meditation.
A: Well, the Buddha never owned the meditation practice. It is just something he discovered. So anybody can use it if they like. There is no copyright. Let’s put it that way.
Q: I know meditation already existed in India, but Vipassana meditation is something the Buddha discovered through his own practice. Am I wrong?
A: That is correct. But he gave it away as a Dana to the world – as a gift. So anybody can use it and whether others want to attribute this to the Buddha or not is not a problem for him. It does not matter. Because it is good for anybody who can practise meditation. If they do not want to accept or acknowledge where it came from, that is okay because our goal is not to be recognised, but to help others to be happy. Bestow Metta. Be a Santa Claus. There is no copyright for Santa Claus. Anybody can become a Santa Claus if they like.
Q: Another point I intended to highlight was that the Buddha’s intention in teaching us meditation was to bring an end to all our suffering. However, certain leadership coaches often use meditation to achieve material wealth and comfort, which is completely different from the Buddha’s original intention. Your view?
A: It means that they will still have to suffer. Because as long as they want physical comforts they will not be able to fulfill it because the nature of the body is always Anicca. This body comfort might last for a while. but eventually, the body discomfort will replace it sooner or later.
Q: There are even certain bhikkhus across the globe who encourage their devotees to engage in Amisa pooja rather than focusing on the importance of Prathipaththi Pooja. Is this a correct practice?
A: That may be because they themselves cannot do the Prathipaththi pooja.
So they cannot lead or guide you in that way. So they guide you in Aamisha pooja.
Q: Does an Arhant still need to do meditation given that has achieved the ultimate goal in Buddhism?
A: He can take it or leave it. But sometimes one can do meditation as a way of relaxation. So arahants still do some practice – they do Walking Meditation to exercise the body, as well as to calm the mind. Otherwise, there is no need for an arahant to do meditation because all defilements have been gotten rid of. The purpose of meditation is to purify the mind.
Q: Is it not appropriate to be too kind to animals.?
A: It is okay as long as you don’t do it in a way that causes harm to other people. For example, some people feed dogs but leave the containers they used behind, littering the street. You have to think of the impact of your kindness on others – whether it causes any problems for them or not. The act of kindness is good, but ensure that your actions make everyone happy.
Q: What is the difference between being kind to animals and being overly attached to them?
A: If you just feed it (or attend to the animal’s needs such as shelter, and medicine), then there is no attachment. But if you feel bad when you cannot do it, then there is an attachment. So being kind to animals while being non-attached to them means you feel happy as long as you feed them, but you do not feel sad, or bad when you do not do it. You should be able to do it or leave it. That is how not to get attached.
Q: Some Buddhists conduct Bodhi poojas in front of the Bo Tree, venerating it as the symbol of the Buddha’s Enlightenment. During these rituals, they often pray for their wishes to be fulfilled. However, is it appropriate to ask for personal benefits at the Bo tree, where the Buddha renounced all worldly attachments? Could this be considered another form of craving?
A: Yeah, it is really a wrong view. Paying respect is to show your trust and belief in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha, and that is all. You want to have a strong belief in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha in order to be able to take up the study and practice.
If you are doubtful of the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha, then you might not want to really study or practise. So when you pay respects, it means you have faith in the Buddha. You believe in his Enlightenment.
You believe that His teachings can lead you to Enlightenment. And you believe that those who follow the teachings of the Buddha, such as the noble disciples, were able to attain enlightenment. This will then give you encouragement or inspiration to follow suit. That is the purpose when you go to pay respects to the Buddha statue or similar things. We just want to show respect. But this is not enough. It is just the beginning.
What we need is to have faith in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha. That they are truly enlightened and that they can teach us to become enlightened and follow their teachings.
But people tend to become more superstitious. They think that the Buddha is like a god or somebody who can grant them wishes.
It is not even the Buddha, but a Buddha statue. We have lots of temples in Thailand with big Buddha statues where people ask favours – whatever they want. Some get what they ask for, and some do not. This can make people feel hopeful that they can get what they want. If they do not get it now, then they just think, ‘Oh, it is not our time.” They then think they just have to be more patient.
Q: In the Mangala Sutta, the Buddha emphasises that leading a noble lay life fulfilling one’s duties and responsibilities too is a significant blessing. Am I correct? Does this imply that the Buddha approved of lay life as well?
A: Yeah, as a lay person being noble means keeping the Five Precepts. This is considered to be noble and to fulfill your responsibility you have tasks to accomplish. Whatever your duty may be, you must carry it out. So this is a good action.
Q: Does it also mean that whoever wishes to lead an ethical lay life can do so while those who wish to become enlightened can choose to do so?
A: Well, it means that as a lay person, you have to fulfill your responsibilities, and if you find that being a lay person is not satisfactory for you, then you might want to move to the role of an ordained person or rather become a monk.
Q: What is the Buddhist explanation of the mind and the body?
A: Mind and body are like husband and wife. The mind, the husband, is the master of the house while the body is the wife, the follower of the master because the mind tells the body what to do. Before speaking the mind has to think first “What am I going to say” and then it tells the body what is to be done. So the body just takes the command from the mind. So in this regard, the mind is the master and the body is just a servant.
The mind is permanent, the mind lasts forever while the body is temporary – it won’t last more than 100 years or so. It will then have to dissolve/return the Four Elements. (A body is made up of Four Elements Patavi, Aapo, Thejo, and Wayo) Then the mind will seek a new body if the mind still needs to have a new body to satisfy its cravings. But for someone who can stop all the cravings, then there will be no need for the mind to go and take a new body. For example, the Buddha and the arahants do not need a new body anymore because they do not have any cravings to use the body or to satisfy the cravings.
Q: Is it correct to say that mind and body are interdependent as discussed in Dependent Origination?
A: Well, the mind depends on the body because the mind has cravings. And if the mind does not have any cravings then it does not have to rely on the body. The Buddha and the arhants do not have to rely on the body.
But others still have to rely on the body because they still want to access the sensual objects. They still want to see things, hear sounds. That is why they need a body.
Q: How does the concept of Anatta (non-self) in Buddhism challenge conventional understandings of personal identity, and what implications does this have for our understanding of the mind?
A: Well, because one is the truth and the other is a falsehood. The conventional understanding is false and not aligned with the truth because everything is like the weather—the wind, the rain, the sun.
Is there self in the rain, in the sun, or in the wind? There is no self in them. So if you look at everything they all come from the Four Elements. So how can the Four Elements have any self? How can a body which is being formed by Four elements become a self? It is just an idea/delusion created by the mind.
Q: When a person falls sick, who is actually falling sick?
A: It is just the body that gets sick like an automobile. When a car is ‘sick’ you cannot run it. Then you have to take it to the shop to repair it. It is the same way with the body. Sometimes, the body gets sick because some parts of the body are not functioning properly. So you have to take it to the doctor to have it fixed.
But the mind does not get sick along with the body. The mind is like the driver of the automobile.
Q: Who receives an education and graduates, if there is no self?
A: The mind, which is learning everything. But the mind is not self. That is all.
Q: How can Mindfulness help to stop one’s craving?
A: When you meditate with mindfulness then you can stop the mind from thinking. When you do not think then you cannot crave. You can only crave after you think. If you think of a new bag, a new dress or so then you start to crave for those. But if you do not think about it, you do not crave it. So when you are not thinking at all how can you crave for anything? So anytime you crave, you just stop thinking. Then the craving will disappear.
Q: Can a person become a Sotapanna without achieving the fourth Jaana?
A: Yes I think you need to have the fourth Jaana. But it does not mean that you have to meditate. If you have already developed the fourth Jaana you might not need to meditate in this life. Then it is with you already. You need to have equanimity. That is why I’m saying the Fourth Jaana is required. You need to have contentment, you have to be happy with yourself. So you don’t have to have any need for anything to make you happy.
Q: A Sotapanna has got rid of the first three fetters right? Can a Sotapanna still feel jealous of another? Can he still want to achieve material benefits?
A: Yes, He can still have this. He can still feel jealous and angry at other people because he still has ‘self’ in mind. There is no ‘self’ in the body, but he still has a ‘self in the mind that he cannot yet get rid of.
Q: Is Buddhism scientific? In what ways does the Buddhist approach to understanding the mind and consciousness align with contemporary scientific research in psychology and neuroscience?
A: Yes, it is the mind. We study the nature of the mind. When we study the nature of the body that is scientific. We study the nature of the mind. That is also scientific.
Q: But Buddhism is different from psychology. Correct?
A: It is more or less psychology, but not the psychology studied in universities. That is not complete psychology like what you learn from the Buddha.
– Ven. Ajahn Suchart Abhijato Maha Thera was born on November 2, 1947. Having completed his degree in Civil Engineering at California State University, Fresno, USA, he returned to his motherland where he designed an ice cream parlour for a brief stint.
Quite soon, inspired by a Dhamma book, he decided to go in search of “true happiness,” to find inner peace through the practice of Buddhist meditation.
He became a bhikkhu at the age of 27 and received ordination at Wat Bovornives in Bangkok on February 19, 1975, with Somdet Phra Ñanasarivara, the late Supreme Patriarch (Somdet Phra Sangharaja), as his preceptor.